Mark Savary’s review of Set Apart
September 12, 2008
This is an answer to the review of Mark Savary found at http://webcomicbeacon.com/2008/07/11/episode-32-list-sites-advertising/. It’s all audio and the review is from 48:50-55:48, but I’ve taken the time to type it for your convenience so my response is clearly understood. According to the page from which I downloaded the review, it was posted July 11, 2008. That date will be important as I point out certain things which seem to have been overlooked. Also know that I keep a 13 week buffer. I discovered Mark’s review on Sept. 10, 2008. I try to keep tabs on what’s said so I can address issues at hand, but unfortunately I am two months late in answering this review. I do appreciate the time Mark Savary took to do an interview on my comic. The idea that my comic was chosen for the review intrigues me, but nevertheless, there are some things that need to be addressed.
Below is Mark Savary’s review in blue, and my response in black. Please read carefully and understand.
Below is Mark Savary’s review in blue, and my response in black. Please read carefully and understand.
Hello. As you remember, we’ve talked before about using a webcomic to promote political or social movements and this week I thought I’d point you towards another niche genre comic that tries to do something very similar, namely, a Christian webcomic. Na-Na-Now don’t abandoned ship yet. Hear me out.
The comic in question this week is Set Apart by Adam Humphreys over at frozenribbon.com and it’s not only a Christian webcomic, but a furry comic as well. How ‘bout that for different? Again, I’m bending the rules a bit because this particular comic is rather new, but it’s a weekly and I think there’s enough material there that we can cover it for you.
There wasn’t quite enough material, as yet, since I have not expounded on the murder. His sudden appearance was not arbitrary. Good rules shouldn’t be bent. But for the record, as I will address later, the information and material that was there, seemed to be overlooked.
Is Set Apart one of those hidden gems that we all like to find? Well, no. Not yet at any rate and ironically it does start off by committing the “first sin” of webcomicry by having a comic that says “Hey, I’m in a webcomic!” Humphreys also adds Bible notation, literally chapter and verse in the dialog. It’s not off-putting, but it’s a little unusual. He also presents cursing in the dialog as the word “profanity” spelled out in brackets. At first I thought that was kind of dippy. I prefer grawlixes myself–you know, little swirls and stars and percent signs–that sort of thing. But on further reflection, it makes a kind of sense. It calls out how people in the script use such words, so, fair enough.
I suppose this so-called “first sin” refers to the first strip, but this is likely the result of a preconceived set of ideas originating from some particular form of propagated customs widely accepted without question. This is why modernist art was considered “bad” or “wrong” at first, because it didn’t follow the previously established rules of art. As one has the literary right to interject a paragraph completely unrelated to the rest of the text, certainly I have the right to portray whatever I wish in such an informal medium within legal limits? As for the representation of profanity and Scripture references, this does set apart my comic from the rest I’ve seen for the purpose described in the about page.
Set Apart does start with an interesting premise. A Christian girl named Cy and a more worldly girl named Kat are going to their first semester of college and wind up as roommates together. It’s your classic odd couple paring, and thats always a pretty good springboard for character development and material.
There are also a couple of other characters. One is a murder who kills people with his tail and his brother who tries to talk him out of being bad. To be honest, I’m not quite sure what they have to do with the story if anything. They don’t really seem to fit and the main storyline would be just fine without them… and probably even better. In fact, when they pop up for a couple of strips, they just seem completely out of place–almost as if there’s a whole different comic inside the main one.
First of all, Niyedman is a criminal, but he doesn’t particularly like the concept of killing people. He’d prefer to let them live. Also, the main storyline would actually die without them. If you think they’re out of place, what about strips 364-367 of DMFA? Would the storyline be better without them since they’re only 4 strips that don’t tie to anything? About 400 strips later, there’s still no significance, but then we come across strip 801, but after that, up to the time of writing this, still nothing. Who am I to tell whether the storyline is better without them? I can’t tell, but I personally think a closer proximity would help, which is why you will see Niyedman again in strip 041 (completed prior to writing this) as opposed to strip 200 or so. I admit my introduction of these strips was more abrupt compared to the DMFA strips I mentioned, but it was intentional to portray a completely different view of the world currently hidden from Cyjessa and Katrassnia.
Back to Cy and Kat. The Characters are only nineteen years old and going to college. For most people in that situation, where to find a good prayer group isn’t the first thing they have on their mind. Of course, that’s exactly what Cy’s concerned about… and Cy seems way older than nineteen. She dresses so frumpy that initially, you can’t even tell she’s supposed to be female. But, she doesn’t so much have a case of the “how dare you”’s, so much that she sees everything and everyone around her as misguided. She’s relatively humorless, rarely or never smiles unless thinking or talking about religion. Kat seems much more interesting, not because she’s worldly, but because she has a personality, and a sense of humor, and she makes mistakes, something that so far, Cy doesn’t seem to do. She goes through life perfectly serene, simply because she’s religious, and that’s the weakest part of the strip so far because Cy is clearly the lead character, she’s the heroine, as such, she ought to be the most interesting character, or, at least, interesting.
The first thing Cyjessa has on her mind is finding a congregation as the strip name indicates, and this would indicate where her priorities lie. She does have a case of the “how dare you”’s concerning things, especially electronic things as indicated by strip 030, which was made (but not published) prior to the review being published. He says Cyjessa doesn’t seem to make mistakes “so far,” which is perhaps true as of this writing, but it leads the listener to develop the same stereotypical view which I discouraged on Apr. 13, 2008. Cyjessa’s first sin poll started on Jun. 7, 2008 which was foretold Apr. 13, 2008 in the Updates/Site History section and by the commentary on strip 025 which was published June 29, 2008. All of this happened before the review was even published on July 11, 2008, which gives one something to think about. I’ll address Cyjessa’s supposed serenity a couple of paragraphs later. Also, what makes a Christian interesting or appealing? What makes Cyjessa interesting except the things which Katrassnia has yet to find out and Cyjessa has yet to reveal? This reminds me of that prophecy of Christ in Isaiah 53:2-3, “…There is no beauty that we should desire Him…,” (and I did have to look that up).
It’s a furry comic. Okay, and it’s a Christian comic. Okay, but that doesn’t mean that character development and believability should just be left on autopilot. So far we’ve learned almost nothing about Cy other than she’s very religious and rather orthodox. She tends to speak in conversational Scripture as well, sort of like conversational French. She has a Bible passage readily on hand for any occasion. “Hey Cy, isn’t a nice day?” “Well, as they say in Matthew 3:14…” I have no idea what they really say in Matthew 3:14, but you get the idea. People don’t really talk, react, or even think like that in everyday life–not even orthodox people, and that affects the believability of the character, which has a direct impact on the character’s long-term appeal.
Okay, people know hardly anything about Cyjessa, so wouldn’t this indicate that Cyjessa is shy and very much to herself? I think it’ll take a little time and someone like Katrassnia to open her up. Also, just because you’ve never met anyone who speaks in conversational Scripture, doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and for the those that don’t, perhaps they should. This goes back to the mentioning of “a webcomic to promote political or social movements.” Why don’t Christians talk like this concerning Biblical issues? Also, just to clarify, if Scripture references are between brackets, they are notes to the reader within the speech bubble, but not actually spoken by the character.
So far, this comic seems to fail on two points. First, it clearly speaks to its audience and not really anyone else. You can tell exactly where it’s aimed at, which is too bad because they’re several installments that are actually rather funny and accessible, but they seemed doomed to be the exception and not the rule. Secondly, the characters are following a rather predictable path. I can tell you right now how they’ll eventually wind up even though I have no idea what story lines Humphreys may choose to do.
Who else would I want my comic to speak to but the audience? Who else would it speak to, unless the assumption is being made that only Christians read it. For the record, I was first favorited by someone who also reads “mature” webcomics. Perhaps this was because of strip 019, but there will be other things similar in nature to this, like strip 037. As for things “funny and accessible,” I don’t disagree that I need to work on this so it doesn’t seem to be the exception. Also, as for predictability, I will try to incorporate the audience, (which is of course very unpredictable), when I want things to shift.
Cy has yet to meet any challenges–any real ones anyway. Things that might cause her to really need her faith to get her through. She’ll get by simply because she’s religious, living serenely inside a bubble, keeping the real world well at arm’s length. And because of all that, she’s not going to grow or change or really learn all that much about real life. The other characters will wind up in one of two groups. The first will convert to religion inspired by Cy’s steadfast example and benign influence and her unconscious ability to make people feel guilty over relatively minor things. Kat’s already well along that road. Kat and the others in this group will convert and find happiness and everything will work out for them just splendirrificly. The others in the cast will not convert, and no matter how popular they are, how successful, how much they party–anything. They’ll always be unhappy, they’ll have bad things happen to them, and feel like something is missing from their minds.
Only in the imaginary world is everything honky dory, or “splendirrific.” As described in my synopsis, Cyjessa’s and Katrassnia’s world will be shaken. Challenges will come in due time, that’s where the villains come into play. In looking at strip 002, a point of the comic is to see what happens when you pop that bubble and put a Christian under pressure, out of the comfort zone, out of the worship building, away from family, and into the spiritual battleground of life. Katrassnia has more experience with the world and can provide insight which Cyjessa would never expect, although Katrassnia may see the situation differently. As for Cyjessa making people feeling guilty, strip 035 deals with this issue, which was completed in the buffer before the review was published. … Again addressing serenity, Christians have most of the same troubles as anyone else whether people know it or not. Ever read the book of Job? He wasn’t exactly a Christian, but a follower of God nonetheless. Also, there’s at least two other groups you failed to consider: those who think they’re Christians, and unfaithful or falling Christians. (I recall someone voting for a false prophet. I think I will implement what they voted for in due time.)
On his website, Humphrey[s] lays out very clearly what he wants from the comic, what the project is all about, and what it’s not supposed to be. So, perhaps it’s unfair for me to expect more from this strip. Perhaps it’s just supposed to be taken at face value. Maybe it’s just one of those comics that just is what it is. Still, with such an interesting premise and the potential such a script could have to enlighten, educate, entertain, possibly even give insight into the Christian mindset, I think it could be developed a little bit better. He says elsewhere that the comic isn’t meant to be instructive or to be used in conjunction with Bible study. That’s unfortunate because it may be best suited for that when all is said and done. I would envision a sort of Sunday school version in print that could be quite useful for teaching this material.
I think it’s perfectly fair to expect more from the comic, much more, but not necessarily the expected. To admit however, I did want it to start like it did just so I could start toppling things over so-to-speak in due time. I think the review could’ve been developed a bit better myself, but let’s face it, what couldn’t we humans do better? As for Bible study, what was said is true, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be used in a Bible study, it just isn’t necessarily meant to be, as explained on the about page. Many older computers aren’t meant to run XP, but that doesn’t mean they can’t, just not as well as those that are meant to run XP. What could be more effective at studying the Bible than the Bible itself? Sure some things help, but the Bible is the true meat. Perhaps some strips from my comic could illustrate an example in a Bible study, as I have seen comics in a presentation before on a video archive. Now, if someone wants to present a strip in a Bible study, I don’t see a need to try to stop them unless there’s a known doctrinal flaw with the strip.
But in the mean time we’re dealing with a webcomic. Humphreys may indeed have some very clever things planned for his comic so that the story will take off in amazing directions, and again, the comic is very young so there’s room to grow here. But somehow, I just don’t have faith that’s going to happen.
Indeed this is a webcomic, as I intended it, and although I won’t say I’m doing clever things per-say, but I do try to avoid cliechés. As far as I’m concerned, this comic is barely started. Has anyone noticed I seem to use “in due time” quite a bit? In DMFA, Dan has yet to call Matilda from strips 410-412 and 662, but perhaps in due time.
I’m Mark Savary, and until me meet again, take care.
I hope this clears things up and I very much appreciate Mark taking the time to review my comic and providing me with criticism that I need to hear. I can only suggest not bending the rules next time, or perhaps contacting me to get more insight so as not to overlook things, like what I attempted to address on Apr. 13, 2008.
The comic in question this week is Set Apart by Adam Humphreys over at frozenribbon.com and it’s not only a Christian webcomic, but a furry comic as well. How ‘bout that for different? Again, I’m bending the rules a bit because this particular comic is rather new, but it’s a weekly and I think there’s enough material there that we can cover it for you.
There wasn’t quite enough material, as yet, since I have not expounded on the murder. His sudden appearance was not arbitrary. Good rules shouldn’t be bent. But for the record, as I will address later, the information and material that was there, seemed to be overlooked.
Is Set Apart one of those hidden gems that we all like to find? Well, no. Not yet at any rate and ironically it does start off by committing the “first sin” of webcomicry by having a comic that says “Hey, I’m in a webcomic!” Humphreys also adds Bible notation, literally chapter and verse in the dialog. It’s not off-putting, but it’s a little unusual. He also presents cursing in the dialog as the word “profanity” spelled out in brackets. At first I thought that was kind of dippy. I prefer grawlixes myself–you know, little swirls and stars and percent signs–that sort of thing. But on further reflection, it makes a kind of sense. It calls out how people in the script use such words, so, fair enough.
I suppose this so-called “first sin” refers to the first strip, but this is likely the result of a preconceived set of ideas originating from some particular form of propagated customs widely accepted without question. This is why modernist art was considered “bad” or “wrong” at first, because it didn’t follow the previously established rules of art. As one has the literary right to interject a paragraph completely unrelated to the rest of the text, certainly I have the right to portray whatever I wish in such an informal medium within legal limits? As for the representation of profanity and Scripture references, this does set apart my comic from the rest I’ve seen for the purpose described in the about page.
Set Apart does start with an interesting premise. A Christian girl named Cy and a more worldly girl named Kat are going to their first semester of college and wind up as roommates together. It’s your classic odd couple paring, and thats always a pretty good springboard for character development and material.
There are also a couple of other characters. One is a murder who kills people with his tail and his brother who tries to talk him out of being bad. To be honest, I’m not quite sure what they have to do with the story if anything. They don’t really seem to fit and the main storyline would be just fine without them… and probably even better. In fact, when they pop up for a couple of strips, they just seem completely out of place–almost as if there’s a whole different comic inside the main one.
First of all, Niyedman is a criminal, but he doesn’t particularly like the concept of killing people. He’d prefer to let them live. Also, the main storyline would actually die without them. If you think they’re out of place, what about strips 364-367 of DMFA? Would the storyline be better without them since they’re only 4 strips that don’t tie to anything? About 400 strips later, there’s still no significance, but then we come across strip 801, but after that, up to the time of writing this, still nothing. Who am I to tell whether the storyline is better without them? I can’t tell, but I personally think a closer proximity would help, which is why you will see Niyedman again in strip 041 (completed prior to writing this) as opposed to strip 200 or so. I admit my introduction of these strips was more abrupt compared to the DMFA strips I mentioned, but it was intentional to portray a completely different view of the world currently hidden from Cyjessa and Katrassnia.
Back to Cy and Kat. The Characters are only nineteen years old and going to college. For most people in that situation, where to find a good prayer group isn’t the first thing they have on their mind. Of course, that’s exactly what Cy’s concerned about… and Cy seems way older than nineteen. She dresses so frumpy that initially, you can’t even tell she’s supposed to be female. But, she doesn’t so much have a case of the “how dare you”’s, so much that she sees everything and everyone around her as misguided. She’s relatively humorless, rarely or never smiles unless thinking or talking about religion. Kat seems much more interesting, not because she’s worldly, but because she has a personality, and a sense of humor, and she makes mistakes, something that so far, Cy doesn’t seem to do. She goes through life perfectly serene, simply because she’s religious, and that’s the weakest part of the strip so far because Cy is clearly the lead character, she’s the heroine, as such, she ought to be the most interesting character, or, at least, interesting.
The first thing Cyjessa has on her mind is finding a congregation as the strip name indicates, and this would indicate where her priorities lie. She does have a case of the “how dare you”’s concerning things, especially electronic things as indicated by strip 030, which was made (but not published) prior to the review being published. He says Cyjessa doesn’t seem to make mistakes “so far,” which is perhaps true as of this writing, but it leads the listener to develop the same stereotypical view which I discouraged on Apr. 13, 2008. Cyjessa’s first sin poll started on Jun. 7, 2008 which was foretold Apr. 13, 2008 in the Updates/Site History section and by the commentary on strip 025 which was published June 29, 2008. All of this happened before the review was even published on July 11, 2008, which gives one something to think about. I’ll address Cyjessa’s supposed serenity a couple of paragraphs later. Also, what makes a Christian interesting or appealing? What makes Cyjessa interesting except the things which Katrassnia has yet to find out and Cyjessa has yet to reveal? This reminds me of that prophecy of Christ in Isaiah 53:2-3, “…There is no beauty that we should desire Him…,” (and I did have to look that up).
It’s a furry comic. Okay, and it’s a Christian comic. Okay, but that doesn’t mean that character development and believability should just be left on autopilot. So far we’ve learned almost nothing about Cy other than she’s very religious and rather orthodox. She tends to speak in conversational Scripture as well, sort of like conversational French. She has a Bible passage readily on hand for any occasion. “Hey Cy, isn’t a nice day?” “Well, as they say in Matthew 3:14…” I have no idea what they really say in Matthew 3:14, but you get the idea. People don’t really talk, react, or even think like that in everyday life–not even orthodox people, and that affects the believability of the character, which has a direct impact on the character’s long-term appeal.
Okay, people know hardly anything about Cyjessa, so wouldn’t this indicate that Cyjessa is shy and very much to herself? I think it’ll take a little time and someone like Katrassnia to open her up. Also, just because you’ve never met anyone who speaks in conversational Scripture, doesn’t mean they don’t exist, and for the those that don’t, perhaps they should. This goes back to the mentioning of “a webcomic to promote political or social movements.” Why don’t Christians talk like this concerning Biblical issues? Also, just to clarify, if Scripture references are between brackets, they are notes to the reader within the speech bubble, but not actually spoken by the character.
So far, this comic seems to fail on two points. First, it clearly speaks to its audience and not really anyone else. You can tell exactly where it’s aimed at, which is too bad because they’re several installments that are actually rather funny and accessible, but they seemed doomed to be the exception and not the rule. Secondly, the characters are following a rather predictable path. I can tell you right now how they’ll eventually wind up even though I have no idea what story lines Humphreys may choose to do.
Who else would I want my comic to speak to but the audience? Who else would it speak to, unless the assumption is being made that only Christians read it. For the record, I was first favorited by someone who also reads “mature” webcomics. Perhaps this was because of strip 019, but there will be other things similar in nature to this, like strip 037. As for things “funny and accessible,” I don’t disagree that I need to work on this so it doesn’t seem to be the exception. Also, as for predictability, I will try to incorporate the audience, (which is of course very unpredictable), when I want things to shift.
Cy has yet to meet any challenges–any real ones anyway. Things that might cause her to really need her faith to get her through. She’ll get by simply because she’s religious, living serenely inside a bubble, keeping the real world well at arm’s length. And because of all that, she’s not going to grow or change or really learn all that much about real life. The other characters will wind up in one of two groups. The first will convert to religion inspired by Cy’s steadfast example and benign influence and her unconscious ability to make people feel guilty over relatively minor things. Kat’s already well along that road. Kat and the others in this group will convert and find happiness and everything will work out for them just splendirrificly. The others in the cast will not convert, and no matter how popular they are, how successful, how much they party–anything. They’ll always be unhappy, they’ll have bad things happen to them, and feel like something is missing from their minds.
Only in the imaginary world is everything honky dory, or “splendirrific.” As described in my synopsis, Cyjessa’s and Katrassnia’s world will be shaken. Challenges will come in due time, that’s where the villains come into play. In looking at strip 002, a point of the comic is to see what happens when you pop that bubble and put a Christian under pressure, out of the comfort zone, out of the worship building, away from family, and into the spiritual battleground of life. Katrassnia has more experience with the world and can provide insight which Cyjessa would never expect, although Katrassnia may see the situation differently. As for Cyjessa making people feeling guilty, strip 035 deals with this issue, which was completed in the buffer before the review was published. … Again addressing serenity, Christians have most of the same troubles as anyone else whether people know it or not. Ever read the book of Job? He wasn’t exactly a Christian, but a follower of God nonetheless. Also, there’s at least two other groups you failed to consider: those who think they’re Christians, and unfaithful or falling Christians. (I recall someone voting for a false prophet. I think I will implement what they voted for in due time.)
On his website, Humphrey[s] lays out very clearly what he wants from the comic, what the project is all about, and what it’s not supposed to be. So, perhaps it’s unfair for me to expect more from this strip. Perhaps it’s just supposed to be taken at face value. Maybe it’s just one of those comics that just is what it is. Still, with such an interesting premise and the potential such a script could have to enlighten, educate, entertain, possibly even give insight into the Christian mindset, I think it could be developed a little bit better. He says elsewhere that the comic isn’t meant to be instructive or to be used in conjunction with Bible study. That’s unfortunate because it may be best suited for that when all is said and done. I would envision a sort of Sunday school version in print that could be quite useful for teaching this material.
I think it’s perfectly fair to expect more from the comic, much more, but not necessarily the expected. To admit however, I did want it to start like it did just so I could start toppling things over so-to-speak in due time. I think the review could’ve been developed a bit better myself, but let’s face it, what couldn’t we humans do better? As for Bible study, what was said is true, but that doesn’t mean it couldn’t be used in a Bible study, it just isn’t necessarily meant to be, as explained on the about page. Many older computers aren’t meant to run XP, but that doesn’t mean they can’t, just not as well as those that are meant to run XP. What could be more effective at studying the Bible than the Bible itself? Sure some things help, but the Bible is the true meat. Perhaps some strips from my comic could illustrate an example in a Bible study, as I have seen comics in a presentation before on a video archive. Now, if someone wants to present a strip in a Bible study, I don’t see a need to try to stop them unless there’s a known doctrinal flaw with the strip.
But in the mean time we’re dealing with a webcomic. Humphreys may indeed have some very clever things planned for his comic so that the story will take off in amazing directions, and again, the comic is very young so there’s room to grow here. But somehow, I just don’t have faith that’s going to happen.
Indeed this is a webcomic, as I intended it, and although I won’t say I’m doing clever things per-say, but I do try to avoid cliechés. As far as I’m concerned, this comic is barely started. Has anyone noticed I seem to use “in due time” quite a bit? In DMFA, Dan has yet to call Matilda from strips 410-412 and 662, but perhaps in due time.
I’m Mark Savary, and until me meet again, take care.
I hope this clears things up and I very much appreciate Mark taking the time to review my comic and providing me with criticism that I need to hear. I can only suggest not bending the rules next time, or perhaps contacting me to get more insight so as not to overlook things, like what I attempted to address on Apr. 13, 2008.